You’ll have to be really honest with yourself about this one.
Over my short career, I’ve had several patients who were self-diagnosed as autistic or with having Asperger’s Syndrome. They would make rude comments and then excuse them with the diagnosis. So, as you can imagine, most people felt guilty for expressing their resentment. According to the DSM-5, in order to be diagnosed with autism, a patient must present persistent deficits in communication across several contexts; have restricted, repetitive patterns of activities, interests, or behavior; and present with their symptoms at an early age. When you observe the detailed criteria and want to find a reason for your selfishness and rudeness, it’s easy to consider yourself to be autistic and provide yourself with a story that absolves you of any normative responsibility. So, how can we distinguish between Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or NPD (and its counterpart, Borderline Personality Disorder), from Autism Spectrum Disorder?
Initially, I gave those clients the benefit of the doubt and accepted their self-descriptions. But, over time, as I got to know them, I caught a peek into the maliciousness of their self-absorption. The individual with autism doesn’t understand that she’s harming someone, whereas the narcissist doesn’t care and, at worst, aims to do so. If they wish to bring you down to their level and make you feel inferior, they’ll nit-pick and expose your flaws. For them, doing so makes one more malleable and grateful. Sometimes, they’ll put you down just to feel superior if they’re feeling low, but at others, they’ll do it to assert their dominance. An autistic person, on the contrary, is just hyperfocused on herself and her interests; she doesn’t utilize conversations to feel superior and powerful (perhaps by bragging).
The distinction here is between the person who’s often rude and the one who’s often, or at least occasionally, nice. Narcissists are frequently charming until they have you. Then, they flip a switch and find fault with most of what you do. The rudeness of autism, however, is fairly stable and isn’t founded on manipulative intent. Autistic individuals struggle with learning social norms, as their tendency to think in absolutes makes it difficult to attain a sense of clarity about when to apply which ones. But, the point is: they want to. Narcissistically structured individuals believe they’re above all of the rules, merely following them to gain status and preclude punishment. Narcissists crave admiration, whereas autism desperately maneuvers for acceptance.
Additionally, narcissists use guilt and punishment to make others feel indebted. Around one, you’ll always feel like you should be doing more. You’ll feel unempathetic, uncaring, and generally not good enough. When you succeed, he’ll make you feel guilty for your success (or simply minimize it), as opposed to someone with autism, who likely won’t acknowledge it. Narcissists tend to feel that others’ achievements are solely due to luck and conceive of themselves as the sole victims of circumstance. They’ll say things like, “If I had it as well as you did, I’d be as successful, too.” And, narcissists blame others for their misery, sensing an inherent unfairness to their lots. Thus, their lack of empathy is more conscious: they choose to fail to consider a world that they believe refuses to consider them. The difference between autism and narcissism, as noted in the article linked below, is that one implies a high degree of non-sensitivity, whereas the other implies one of insensitivity; the former doesn’t know and the latter doesn’t care. The narcissist displays patterns of indifference and cruelty, whereas the autistic individual may feel remorse for some social blunder.
Finally, again, as noted above, narcissists require and love external validation (both praise and sympathy). They’ll talk over you; they’ll re-direct a conversation about your sorrows to theirs, noting how they’ve had it worse; and they’ll one-up your accomplishments to improve their reputation at your expense. Whatever you’re going through isn’t an excuse to garner the attention they’re entitled to. Remember, they’re insensitive and won’t give a shit about your struggles.
Unfortunately, it takes time to get to know a person in order to distinguish between the two disorders. I want to be clear in stating that each are in some form diseases of the brain, with psycho-social components. (To be fair, autism has been reclassified by many as a type of neurodivergence.) Some narcissists prefer to be labeled autistic because it gives them an excuse for their behavior, therefore reducing the likelihood of blame. Others refuse to accept the NPD label, as it implies a moral failing and, therefore, imperfection. But, both are significant psycho/neurological disorders. I wrote this article not to perpetuate the stigma of NPD, but to help others understand it in order to decide for themselves if they wish to continue to associate with those with it. Narcissists are badly traumatized and need help. But enabling their behavior by feeding into their poorly-ascribed labels is a bad way to provide it.
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/narcissism-vs-aspergers-how-can-i-tell-the-difference-1114174
Leon's Existential Cafe 
Well Narcissism can be triggered by PTSD too, as a self defense mechanism to survive. The question is how can an empath turn into a narcissist? 2 steps. Force severe trauma on an empath and then take away their mental emotions and that’s all it takes. The PTSD will trigger flight or fight, but given that the body feels like its being attacked constantly, and other emotions can’t rein that person in, that person is completely toxic and that person is stuck in fight. So it’s that person’s duty to walk back their trauma, tame the body’s reactions, and stop the log jam that’s causing the emotional numbness, and that’s what recovery looks like for said cause of narcissism. I’m sure there’s other causes as well.
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Not too bad but certainly not clear enough. Wrong termonology was used with the words ‘diseases’ and ‘psycho/neurological disorders’ both do not apply to autism. Hopefully there will be much more research on the actually great differences between autism and narcissism.
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How would you categorize Autism?
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autism is someone with a different brain structure and neurological language a narcissist is someone with a big ego.
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Complement component protein testing and a 24 hour urine catch fractionated catecholamine test can be of value in confirming and defining autism and post traumatic stress.
I can provide research papers?
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It is definitely neurological. That’s why it’s termed “neurodivergent.” The word “psychological” also just pertains to the mind and behavior. I think you took insult where none was intended. Those words are not meant to make you equate autism with insanity or a broken brain, they are just scientific terms used for the study of the mind and behavior.
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I think we are all born perfect and unique and this idea that we must put a label on every difference in us creates a separation. A judgement that says there is something wrong with you. These labels hold shame and that creates more separation. We need compassion, Connection, unity and love now more than ever. Not a label or a diagnosis meant to hold you down. Acceptance and love to create a world where we simply are all perfect. We won’t get there unless we unite, not divide. Labels separate and hurt. We need to heal 🙏
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This is compassionately ignorant. We live in a society which means that there is connection, communication, and collaboration that needs to take place between individuals in order to have stable, healthy relationships within a community. Understanding basic needs for human relationship, and also understanding how individuals contribute to each others needs whether positively or negatively helps everyone make better decisions concerning community and who they interact with, or how they interact with them. Just saying, “we are all born perfect” implies nothing needs to be addressed or corrected within an individual. You can lovingly, compassionately address disorders. And there are “disorders”. There is an order of things which enables optimal functionality whether in the brain, the body, or anything else in life. When there is dysfunction for whatever reason (malnutrition in the womb, genetics, upbringing etc.) It can have a negative affect on everyone involved which can cause a domino effect in unhealthy patterns of thinking, relationships, and lifestyle. We must care about everyone involved when there is Community so health and harmony is promoted and burdens are lifted.
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This sounds very naive to me. I don’t think a label/diagnosis such as “autism” necessarily has to “other” a person, the only reason you think it’s a negative thing is because of the stigma that comes with it. Personally, when I understand someone is autistic, it invokes more compassion and forces me to try hard to understand why they’ve acted in a way that may be perceived as selfish or rude. I think it’s important to understand intent rather than action and categorising neurological differences can help us understand this more.
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What a naively idealistic take; totally bereft of reason and reality.
I am nearly 40 years old. I grew up without understanding why I diverged from others my age; why I felt out of place, never belonging; why I was simultaneously offended by human behavior and drawn to socializing with them anyway. I felt like a jerk, an a$$hole. Never invited, always tagging along, and never understanding why nobody wanted me around.
I have always cared deeply for people, but have never been able to understand them and, subsequently, have offended many people unintentionally. I have felt, for most of my life, that I was probably a narcissist because of how people reacted to me.
As an adult, learning that I am neurodivergent – likely autism spectrum disorder – and categorically NOT narcissistic has given me back some confidence and satisfaction. I am healthier and happier BECAUSE OF the label, not in spite of it.
Yes, labels can be used to hurt, but you’re coming off as someone with no perspective on the matter and all the ignorance.
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Love this! Thank you for sharing, Scott.
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a person can have both ~ one is neurological the other a form of PTSD
it is very hard to process wtf just happened having lived with one for 25 years
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Can I have both? I think I do. I know when I degrade someone but I also am so disconnected from the world. The craziest thing ever can be happening to me and I won’t be able to acknowledge it (for example, which is a real example, I’ve been near death 2 times and just didn’t feel like in the space of time. I once got rescued from drowning and was thinking of other things). I am also a very distracted person, can’t focus even on the most important ceremony of my life. I can be harsh, degrading, envious, arrogant and egocentric. In fact I am most of those things every day. I want to change though
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You definitely can.
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It sounds that you might have cptsd or ptsd, trauma can change personalities over time. Being distracted can also be a symptom of disassociation. If you can recognise that you have these traits, you can definitely work on changing them. Self-awareness is key.
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I’ve always thought that I have aspbergers, the symptoms line up, my behaviors line up, and the way I learn things has always been explained by the autism spectrum. 5 months ago I started dating a guy who genuinely cares about me, he works hard, plays hard and proves over and over how much he’ll do and how far he’ll go to show me his love. He’s very good at pointing out things that I don’t want to hear about myself and I’m realizing that alot of my behaviors, that I’ve rationalized as aspbergeric reactions, are more likely narcissism. I’m in a bit of shock realizing how I’ve been going about my life and I’m making a journal of how I can change. I don’t want to be manipulative, but I think I’ve let myself wire it into my brain. I’m still doing research, but I feel lost and confused. I do know there is hope for me, and I’m already seeking the professional help I now know i definitely need.
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I’m glad you’re finding the work helpful. People with autism don’t fluctuate in their behavior or tend to manipulate. With narcissism, people are treated differently based on the individual’s desires.
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Your partner is good at pointing out your flaws, and you feel lost and confused. Autistics can be easily brainwashed by narcissistic partners. please watch out.
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Perhaps an article should now be written entitled ‘Am I just an ableist arsehole?’.
This new article would explain what is wrong with this ableist attitude that claims autistic people ’cause harm’ in this way.
Let me help you out here – what happens is that allistic (non-autistic) ableists assume autistic people intend to communicate implicit messages in the way that allistics do. Autistic people (such as myself) only sound sarcastic or mean when we are being judged through the lens of allistic behaviour – we are simply being direct. By that dint, our empathy and kindness is also missed because it is not ‘performed’ in the same way.
Unfortunately, the ableist allistic – who does not have the empathy to understand that autistic people are simply different, and takes their privileged position as the predominant neurotype as both ‘normal’ and ‘better’ – takes offence where none is meant. Blaming the autistic person for their wounded ego, they cast them as the baddie, rather than taking responsibility for their own hurt feelings and whatever may be needed to deal with them. This is by far the easiest option – and, in fact, the very essence of narcissistic process.
The harm here is – in fact – to the marginalised autistic, who has to absorb the rage of the projected allistic hurt feelings, from an already disadvantaged standing position of lifelong disempowerment.
The assertion that all autistic people ‘don’t know’ the impact they are having is also inaccurate. In fact, the very reason so many of us mask and hide our real opinions (as do I ) is because we know how often those with allistic (non-autistic) privilege take offence where none is meant, and cannot face dealing with so constantly being misread and thought mean and unpleasant. This is also in part an expression of our empathy because we understand that these are genuinely hurt feelings, even though we should not be to take responsibility for them.
This is no more or less than ‘neurotypical fragility’ – autistic people, simply, because of their neurotype – do not have the apparatus to intuitively play the allistic social games of hiding the truth to protect egos, or issuing underhanded insults instead of dealing with the real issue. Those with privilege should be working to understand and make space for marginalised communities – not shoring up their privilege through judgment.
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All these self-entitled “aspie” / woke trash have created YET ANOTHER stereotype that makes living with autism even more umbearable: the pathetic self-righteous d-bag full of ludicrous demands about their “neurodivergence”.
This generation has managed to avoid every single freaking responsibility over their actions with this “privilege” mumbo jumbo. If all the effort an autistic person goes to twist every little thing into a social issue, just to deflect every little criticism the “neurotypical” world throws at them, maybe they’d actually be able to SEE and STOP the HARM, yes, HARM it causes, to us and to people around us.
If you don’t feel impaired by autism. If it’s not harming you or everyone around you, well, you’re just not autistic enough to understand what you have is a freaking DISEASE — not some freaking “neurodivergency” — and you should take RESPONSIBILITY for it. It’s not your fault you were born with it, not anyone else’s. But it’s you who were born with it, and it’s your burden to carry. If you find someone generous enough to carry 20% or even 50% of it. You should feel LUCKY. It’s PAINFUL to be on the other side of autism as well, maybe more, I’d think, when that person is romantically involved. Autism harms us, but harms them so much more.
There’s never gonna be fair treatment of autistic people while walking jokes like you are the voice of autism in the media. You’re a freaking embarrassment.
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I spot a narcissist here 😅
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Autism isn’t a disease. It’s a neurological difference. Ironically, in criticizing autism you’re falling prey to one of its hallmarks: black-and-white thinking.
But you’re completely right about the woke trash infesting the autism world. I’ve met that type, and the social justice/LGBTQ type who thinks I should be an autism SJW. Fuck that noise
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Thank you for so clearly demonstrating what the “narcissist who claims autism in order to get away with being an asshole” looks like.
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Thank you so much for reading!
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Lol. Bless your heart.
Just another aspie not taking responsibility and ruining the lives of those around them. You know there is an actual syndrome that those who live with aspies develop, right?
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“They’ll talk over you; they’ll re-direct a conversation about your sorrows to theirs, noting how they’ve had it worse; and they’ll one-up your accomplishments to improve their reputation at your expense.”
You are so wrong, IMHO. It’s actually VERY common with Aspies with ADHD (like me). It looks a lot like narcissism but the main difference is the WHY. I interrupt people’s sorrows and talk about myself but the reason I do it is because I’m trying to empathize with them, put myself in their shoes & tell them that I feel their pain but then I realize what I did and feel like sh** not just in that moment but it’ll torture me for YEARS to come in the form of invasive thoughts. Going by this article alone, you’d misdiagnose me as a narcissist. FYI, I’m not self-diagnosed. I’ve been evaluated officially diagnosed and reaffirmed by 2nd & 3rd opinions.
Also, in real life, not all interruptions are rude. You should probably look up the term “cooperative overlapping”.
I hope this was coherent because I find it quite difficult to communicate my positions effectively & efficiently and this was brutal.
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The thing is people with Autism might have ADHD as well. I Constantly talk over others and share my experiences when they share theirs its a way to connect I never do it to out trama them or anything else, my meltdowns is intense and I hit myself but the things I say cab be precieved as toxic and narc but I feel this intense guilt after a meltdown, which can be triggered by so many things, I can have a small and a big meltdown. And afterwards I go into this depression phase. I Have high empathy but dont always get that i hurt people by my words, but on the other side I can overthink a conversation for days and days introspecting and reliving my words and actions and feeling ashamed coz I dont understand them.
I thought for the longest time I am a narc
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Narcissists don’t tend to feel remorse and deflect blame onto others. When they interrupt, they feel entitled to do so.
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No offence but the people commenting have more accurate information. Most of the information on autism when put into a search engine is inaccurate. (Ironically to neurotypicals) In my opinion, the best information online would be on social media like Facebook, Instagram & TikTok. Of course there’s false information on there too, but I find they’re 100% more up-to-date and it’s Real Lived information. Not clinical, DSM or something that neurotypicals think. I’m diagnosed autistic and going for an ADHD diagnosis soon. Autisim and ADHD often go hand in hand more often then not. In my opinion when diagnosing for one of these neurodiversities the other should also be included. Suggestions on Instagram would be @neurodivergentfuture, @actuallyadhdandautisticwoman and @stand4neurodiversity. Facebook pages like How to say you’re neurodivergent without saying you’re neurodivergent, Our Neurodivergent Life and The Occuplaytional Therapist who I would highly recommend. Facebook reels for Coby Watts, Conner DeWolfe and Claire Bowman, who is an amazing ADHDer. Claire is also on Insta and TikTok. There are literay hundreds of related social media pages. I hope this is helpful.
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Social media accounts, especially those Big 3(along with Twitter) are the last place that anyone should look at for official information.
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I always thought I was one of those self-deprecating narcissists who use false modesty as a shield for being a self-entitled, obnoxious prick. Turns out I’m just afraid of everything and everyone and I’m trying to crawl into the nearest hole in the ground.
My adult daughter has been diagnosed with autism since she was three years old, complete with hand flapping, echolalia and scripting. With a lot of ABA, a lot of privilege and a lot of unique (but safe) experiences she was able to muster the wherewithal to declare at the age of 16 that she doesn’t want to be autistic anymore. Maybe all those efforts had nothing to do with it and she’s “developing” at her own rate. Unfortunately, she doesn’t have a choice and it simultaneously gave me hope and broke my heart. Fortunately, we can afford to live comfortably in Washington state.
I am known for over talking, especially about complicated things that know one really cares about. That’s why the field of medicine attracted me. Turns out that the reasons for my over-talking were two-fold. I am never certain about context and I am terrified of being misunderstood. I abhor any social construct that I feel inadequate to deal with so I usually avoid those. I quit the field of medicine after 21 years when the Medicare reimbursement rules started to change more often then the French change their underwear. It affected my ability to explain to my patients why their insurance sucked. I still felt bad about my inability to care for them any longer, but I certainly didn’t want them to think it was my fault.
So I say rude things when I get frustrated. Maybe I’m a very inadequate narcissist? Go ahead everyone, have at it! Maybe white middle aged retired doctors have too much karmic debt to be aloud on the pity train. You decide. I’ve lost the ability to care. I always thought that I was suffering compassion fatigue. What a made up, middle class, white person problem, right? See it’s easy…join in if you must. I perseverate a lot too.
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I see a lot of signs of ASD level 1 in your description of yourself. It looks so different from level 2 or 3 that it can be difficult to accept that it is still Autism. The signs I see- genetics, higher incidence among doctors, high intelligence but difficulty with communication, becoming an expert in something to help limit conversation to what you feel competent in and leaving the profession when that comfortability is removed (and Medicare guidelines can do that!), over-talking about your “special interests” (areas of expertise), developing self-depreciation as humor as that proves to go over better socially than attempts at joking about others), getting frustrated (possibly overwhelmed with sensory, social, or communication demands) to the point you no longer feel able to add the social niceties or fluff to your words that make things go over better- that takes effort, so you revert to the directness that is comfortable when overwhelmed and receive feedback that you are being rude. Also, being very concerned patients would think the changes or decisions were your fault- I do not know why but I have seen this consistently in life experience with ASD loved ones but as not much in the literature about ASD… that they often see people’s complaints or expressions of being displeased, disappointed, or unhappy as them thinking this is the fault of the person with ASD. The person with ASD then defends themselves as though they are being blamed, and they see their mindset as the one that makes the most sense (“mind-blindness”) and have a solid self-esteem because of this, and don’t feel that it’s fair to be blamed. Sometimes they will become angry or withdraw from the discussion rather than argue and defend. All the while the other person is not as concerned with who is at fault. They are wanting to be understood and have the person with ASD join with them in making adjustments to help make the situation better from that person’s perspective, or at least to have them join with them through expressions of empathy if the situation cannot be changed.
NPD and ASD can be difficult to distinguish at times because there can be traits that seem similar, and both certainly receive feedback that they are entitled, obnoxious pricks. These traits can affect others in similar ways whether ASD or NPD. What lies behind it and the other traits that go along with it are different. In your description, I see someone so uncomfortable with communication difficulty that he gave up a career that would have given him status and felt badly for clients because of this. It seems someone with NPD would not be as quick to let go of such a status and may not be as concerned with helping their patients understand complex issues.
Of course this is only from reading a few paragraphs. I encourage you to look into it further. If you have ASD, you will want to manage your stress well so that you can communicate and relate to others in the way you want to.
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Nope. Don’t agree. Aspies DO know when they are hurting you and they DON’T care.
This is gaslighting and giving aspies a pass.
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You had me going until you called autism a “disease” of the mind. Even disorder is questionable. It’s a neurotype, not a mental illness. That shows a severe lack of understanding, right there.
I can see the parallels. But I feel that this is pointing a negative light on autism. And the condition is already so completely misunderstood that it really doesn’t need any more bad press.
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It is a mental disorder that has affected the life of a lot of people. In the worse case the person becomes non-verbal and severely impaired compared with the others. Just because you are “high functional” doesn’t mean that it is not a disorder. Just having it at level 1 instead of level 3 doesn’t mean you are mentally healthy. It comes with some advantages but most often than not with even more disadvantages.
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This article sheds light on the crucial distinction between Autism Spectrum Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, emphasizing the difference in intent behind behaviors. Understanding this contrast is essential for navigating interpersonal dynamics and fostering empathy.
aurahomes #cerebral palsy therapies #occupational therapy treatment for autism #applied behavior analysis aba therapist #special educator for autism #autism therapies
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It’s very concerning that a licensed psychotherapist would say that ASD is a disease. ASD is not a disease. Period.
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I’m starting to think that it is a mild form of mental illness. In its worse form the person becomes unable to have an independent life. Presence of heavy metals and administering a lot of vaccines at an early age (without proper spacing) might have contributed to it. Many families have been severely affected by this mental condition. The fact that it is so similar to narcissism speaks volumes about how bad it is and I bet many autistic people would love to have a cure if that were possible.
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Thank you for sharing this! You are so right when you said unfortunately it takes time to make the distinction, because by then damage is done. I’m sure my NPD son is hiding behind an AS diagnosis, and he’s probably not alone, which cannot be doing the AS community any favors!
I have a theory about all this that I’d love to run by you, or other people reading this article, and it’s that we need to separate social/emotional. I believe the grouping of these together is a huge mistake. I believe AS is a spectrum because the challenges are neuro related in different areas. I think my son’s biggest challenges are in emotional development. I cannot imagine what it would be like to have the intelligence of an highly educated adult, the social skills of a teenager, and the emotional skills of a toddler. I believe this combination is what my son has and perhaps most NPD have that are born with it.
People that aren’t born with NPD are, in my opinion, run of the mill assholes who developed that way due to pushy asshole parents. People born with NPD, like my son, cannot, I mean cannot, accept their problem, it’s inherent in the condition! It’s a crappy catch 22.
No one ever in his life, not one teacher, caregiver, or doctor, suspected he was on the AS. He self diagnosed after puberty (which was around 12 because he’s biologically female) and demanded we have him tested. With his high intelligence he was able to say and do the right things to get the diagnosis. Now it’s his excuse to belittle people and fly into narcissistic rage when you don’t do his bidding.
I’m desperate, if anyone can understand and provide ideas how to support his emotional development without suffering from NPD abuse I’d greatly appreciate it! I have set boundaries and this enrages him so he finds small ways to get revenge at all opportunities, it’s hell, especially since I love him so much and want us to have a relationship. It kills me that I might have to go no contact with my own kid after he leaves home.
My husband doesn’t suffer as much because he established boundaries early on, and I did not, I did everything asked of me and more. If only I knew! Our younger son doesn’t have have a neuro challenges, and has as little contact with his brother as possible. I’ve had to put down my foot when my oldest tries to belittle him when he talks about his accomplishments at the dinner table. I also never talk about my accomplishments in front of him anymore. I’ve told him it’s mean and he says he doesn’t care because it’s the truth. We shouldn’t be so sensitive he says.
Sorry this is so long! Wow, guess I really needed to get this out.
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actually, your kid could be autistic and maybe they have some “narcissistic” tendencies or are deeply misunderstood. Also, no one is born with NPD at all because it is a trauma disorder. If someone is acting abusive, then they are being abusive. Not everyone who acts abusive has NPD and not every person with NPD is abusive. Please consider reading this article I think it may provide the advice you are looking for 🙂 and since you want to have a relationship with your son I think this is a great read because it offers a compassionate viewpoint.
https://drdevonprice.substack.com/p/sympathy-for-narcissists-14b43091400f
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i’ve met many autists and they are all abusers.
The only difference is some admit to realising while the rest pretend they don’t.
Until autist scum start treating others with human compassion, they are as bad as psychopaths and should be culled accordingly.
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I know a man who is 30 years ge he is a narcissistic in every sense he exhibits a lot of the savior mentioned i. This article. Yet he does not exhibi stimming or other common Activities and actions of autistic Individuals but yet after Insulting people he will casually apologize for his Insulting Comments by saying something to the effect of ‘ oh, my apologies for saying that to or about you that’s Just how my autistic brain works….throughout his day he literally tells people that he is autistic. I have never known a person who really was autistic tell others that they are autistic for any reason. So I think he is not autistic and I think he is just a mean narcissist who uses autisim as an excuse for the way he treats people
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